Repro Justice
There’s a radical idea that you are in charge of your own reproductive future, and that you have the right to choose if, when and how you have children, don’t have children, and choose to parent your children. In this episode, Heidi Williamson from In Our Own Voice, The National Black Women’s Reproductive Justice Agenda, sits down with us to discuss the importance of reproductive justice and how it works in tandem with reproductive health.
We learn that the reproductive justice movement has its roots in the space where reproductive rights and social justice meet. Gender, race, and class are integral factors that contribute to one’s access to reproductive health and justice, particularly for women of color.
Black women have a right to a healthy body before pregnancy, a satisfying and healthy pregnancy, and attentive medical care post-pregnancy. They also have a right to parent their children in communities that are supported by the state rather than in environments that rob women of their children due to police violence or crime. And, black women who decide not to have children have a right to be valued and supported through access to birth control, abortion, and reproductive health information.
Quite simply: society’s most vulnerable women deserve access to the key components of reproductive health: bodily autonomy and self-determination. Additionally, other issues (like LGBTQ justice, gender justice, economic justice, etc.) must be intersected in order to start to understand the spirit of reproductive justice.
Links from this episode
In Our Own Voice Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nationalblackrj/
In Our Own Voice Twitter: https://twitter.com/BlackwomensRJ
Website: http://blackrj.org/
The State of Black Women & Reproductive Justice: http://blackrj.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FINAL-InOurVoices_Report_final.pdf
Transcript
Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back a podcast on all things repro. I'm your host Jennie Wetter. In each episode, I'll be taking you to the front lines of the escalating fight over our sexual and reproductive health and rights at home and abroad. Each episode, I will be speaking with leaders who are fighting to protect our reproductive health and rights to ensure that no one's reproductive health depends on where they live. It's time for repros to fight back.
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Jennie: welcome to rePROs Fight Back. Over the course of the podcast, we're going to be doing a lot of talk about reproductive justice issues. So I thought as we're starting the podcast, it would be really important, set a baseline of, uh, introduction to what reproductive justice is. So with that today we're going to do kind of a reproductive justice one oh one and joining me today, I'm really excited to have Heidi Williamson, the Deputy Director of Strategic Partnerships atIn Our Own Voice, The National Black Women’s Reproductive Justice Agenda. Thank you for joining me today, Heidi.
Heidi: Oh, I'm happy to be here.
Jennie: Um, so before we get too far into this, let's just kind of do a basic, what is reproductive justice?
Heidi: Well, the term itself is, um, is the combination of two terms, reproductive health and social justice. And about 20 years ago, a group of black women, um, in a hotel room in Chicago felt like the term reproductive health and the term reproductive rights were not sufficient for the experiences of black women here in the United States. And that reality was also true for other women of color. So they combined the terms and came up with the phrase reproductive justice.
Jennie: So I know there's a lot of things that fall under that. So let's kind of touch on what are some of the basic issues that kind of get to that intersection of reproductive health and social justice?
Heidi: Absolutely. So one big concept behind reproductive justice is the ability for women to be self determinant. Uh, the idea that your body is yours.
Jennie: That seems pretty basic...
Heidi: Pretty basic, but you'd be amazed at how many people, people don't actually believe that your body is yours and you have the right to decide when and if you will have children. Also, a big component of reproductive justice is, um, the right to have children, the right not to have children, and the right to parent. So historically when we think about the reproductive rights movement, we think about Roe versus Wade and the right to abortion. So that's critical. Um, the ability to, to decide when and if you want to carry a pregnancy to term is important, but women color have had to fight equally as hard to choose to be parents as they have not to be parents. And so it's important to bring into the conversation this notion that women are whole beings. They are autonomous and should they choose to to bring children into the world. They have the right to parent those children with the social supports necessary.
Jennie: And we'll dig into all of that in a little bit. So you touched a little bit on the history. Do you maybe want to talk a little bit more about kind of the reproductive justice movement and how it's changed in the last couple of years?
Heidi: Yeah, so 20 years ago the founding mothers really wanted to make sure that they began a movement that centered the most vulnerable and women of color who had been sort of on the outside of two conversations were part of, were part of the group that they wanted to center. You had women who in the Civil Rights community were told that gender issues could not be front and center, that the, that the, the race issue had to be the priority. And then at the same time, when those same women went to the women's rights spaces, they were told that race could not be an integral part of the conversation around gender justice. And so the movement really wanted to, to have a place where all of these things could coexist because women of color aren't just one thing. I mean, no woman is, but particularly for women of color, we, um, really have to deal with our race, our gender, and our class simultaneously. We can't check one box in one place and another a different one in another space. So the movement was really intentional about bringing vulnerable women who weren't being heard in either of those spaces, the civil rights space or the women's rights space, together. And what you saw was the creation of many organizations that now are sort of in their 10th, 20, 25 year ish kind of history now. Um, they were fledgling organizations back then. And you've also seen reproductive justice advocates began to play a more pivotal role in policy discussions, um, as well as um, activism and organizing around judicial nominations, judicial decisions. Um, particularly here at the Supreme Court when we talk about, for example, um, the abortion bill that was decided by the Supreme Court in Texas. It's really important that the people who are most affected by these laws are also a part of the conversation, not just the doctors and the lawyers, but those who actually are seeking care and those who actually want to receive comprehensive information and make the best decision for their lives in their and their families. So reproductive justice now is more of a more of a I'll say more of a household term than it was 20 years ago. And you have people being a lot more conscientious about ensuring that the most vulnerable or more vulnerable women are part of the conversation. And that we're talking more about race, class and gender. That intersection. It's a little bit easier not to say that it's easy at all, but it's a little bit easier now to bring it into the room even if we're not having the conversation quite the to the result to everyone's, um, pleasure with a result that everyone would prefer. It's understood that these are not concepts that are going away. These are the lived experiences of women and you can't have policy discussions without those lived experiences being friends center.
Jennie: Um, I do a lot of work in the international arena and so I think of it as, you know, we talk about like reproductive health and the siloing of different sectors. So you have like maternal health or malaria or whatever and you're not treating the whole person when they go to receive services. And I think reproductive justice is kind of the same thing. You need to treat the whole person's experience and how they interact with health care system or how they're making decisions and all of the different things that they are facing.
Heidi: Yeah, and I think that there are some people who are just sort of who are used to reproductive rights or reproductive health having its own sort of silo or sector. And what reproductive justice says is, we're not separate from you, but we have to work in tandem with one another. Doctors play a vital role, but health insurance alone and service, access to services also, is not going to alleviate the oppression that many families face and that many women endure. In the same way we know that laws alone is not the only remedy, particularly if you are living in a community where laws are not equally apply to you because of the color of your skin or the socioeconomic background that you come from. So we want to work in tandem. And for many people reproductive justice sort of feels like the theory of everything. And in some ways it is, in some ways it really is. But I think for those who are not in the environment or in the RJ movement, what I always tell people is let's have a couple of key components that you're, that you at least consider if you're a policy wonk and you want to make sure that you're at least considering the reproductive justice framework. And that number one is um, bodily autonomy and self determination, right? Like are you lifting up this, the ability for women to make the decision for themselves with all the information that we can make sure that they have, right? Because we don't want to make decisions for people. We, most of us don't want others coming into our home telling us what we should and should not do or coming into our schools or coming, telling us as an individual what we should do with our body. So bodily autonomy and self determination is critical. Centering the most vulnerable or the people who are impacted the most is also really important. We, we in DC, tend to forget that. And it's easy to, because we represent organizations to a larger body, but making sure that the people who are most impacted by the laws, making sure they have a voice is critical. And then the third piece is how are you intersecting with other issues, right? Are you talking about economic justice? Are you talking about gender justice? Are you talking about parenting justice? Are you intersecting this with the LGBT community? Are you, are you including teens and the trans community? Like all of those things. Um, usually you can ask yourself and at least begin to tap into the spirit of RJ if you at least sort of starting with those three things, um, and move forward in a much more comprehensive way.
Jennie: Maybe we'll talk about some of the core values we mentioned earlier. And while I know each of these could probably be central to their own podcast on, uh, we'll just kind of touch on them today, and then do deeper dives at some other point in other episodes as I want this to be kind of a continuing ongoing conversation. Um, that's really part of the rePROs Fight Back podcast. So let's start with the first one, which is the right to have children. What does that encompass right now in the reproductive justice movement? I know there's a lot of different levels in there. Maternal health issues and access to health care. So maybe we can start on some of those.
Heidi: Yeah. So when we talk about the right to, um, have the children that you want to have, it encompasses, number one, being able to be healthy prior to pregnancy. And what we find is that, um, black women in particular have, um, some of the highest maternal health, mortality rates, but part of that is connected to their health prior to the pregnancy, right? It's not just about checking their health once the embryo has implanted itself attached itself to the uterine wall. Um, so, so when we talk about the right to parent, first of all, it's the right to have a healthy and happy pregnancy and to be able to, to enjoy that health throughout your pregnancy and the year to two years after you have delivered said child. The other part of that is being able to deliver in the manner in which you believe is appropriate. Um, we have an epidemic rate of cesarians happening, um, in this country right now. And in many instances is because the doctors determine for women when and how they should actually deliver. And what we find is that cesarians are, um, even though they're quicker, they're more expensive and they sort of are able to help hospitals bring people in and push them out in a way that they can become sort of, women can become sort of a cash cow. Now it's not to say that there aren't medical reasons to have the cesarian and that that doesn't exist for a viable reason, but at the point where women are being persuaded or convinced that that is the number one way that they should have, um, their childbirth experience. And many women are forced to have cesarians even when they don't want to. Then we have a significant problem. And then the last part is about parenting, right? Like what kind of environment are children being raised in and what kind of social supports is the government and our community responsible for to ensure that children have healthy and safe environments. So, um, that can encompass anything from clean water. Um, i.e. the Flint situation. Um, it can involve anything from, it can involve safe communities, um, violence, um, within the home, uh, violence within the community or violence from the police. We want to ensure that after women have the children that they desire, that they can raise those children into adulthood, um, without fear of them losing their life or, or not being healthy in some way. So it's bigger than a conversation about babies. Um, it's about being able to offer a continuum of care from the time that a woman conceives until the time that she can give birth and raise, um, that child into adulthood.
Jennie: Yeah, I think that's a really important conversation to have. Cause I do think it does kind of get chopped up into like bits and pieces. And so you don't tend to think about all of it. And when you need to think about that whole continuum of care as you said. And I think really also worth digging out is you know you mentioned the higher maternal mortality rate. And I think a lot of people hear that, but you're not hearing it. Like we're talking about 300% higher than for white women. So this is a real issue that really needs to be addressed.
Heidi: Yeah. And it includes everything from dying during childbirth to dying up to a year after childbirth. And that's just really startling cause you don't, you already in many ways are high risk as a black woman simply because you're black, right? Like the CDC has done a lot of research around how just simply being black in America, constant stressors on your pregnancy, just because your back, you're battling racism and your body internalizes that racism and it can impact the fetus. So we have to think through what does it look like to ensure that all women, regardless of race and socioeconomic backgrounds have healthy pregnancies and are able to survive to see those pregnancies come to, to term if they so choose.
Jennie: So now that we have kind of a general idea of some of the issues that are around the right to have kids, what are some of the, and I know it's not all policy, but what are some of the things we can do around that area that need to be done to help ensure that we're having healthier women and children?
Heidi: Part of, um, the decision making that goes into having children and ensuring that women have comprehensive care is understanding the research. There's nothing, if I got pregnant tomorrow, there's nothing I can do about being black in America, right? But there are some things that I can do to ensure that I'm, I'm doing my best to alleviate stress and have a healthy diet and ensure that the pregnancy is, is brought to full term. We have far too many women in this country who don't have, who can't and don't access prenatal care, and get all of the support that they can from the medical establishment here in this country. We also don't take advantage, I think of traditional birthing methods like the use of midwives and doulas that ensure that women can give birth in more traditional spaces. Right? Like, um, and I, you know, I was actually talking to a relative over the holidays who has had 10 children and only goes to the doctor to deliver. That's the only time she goes to the emergency room. At any other time. And it's just, it's, it's amazing that she can do that and actually have, um, healthy pregnancies and have no complications during birth. But we have too many women living in areas where, um, I've talked to activists in Mississippi, right? 300 miles to the closest emergency room.
Jennie: Which is unreal.
Heidi: The idea of even getting to a doctor for the delivery is actually a tall measure for some people depending on where they live and what, and what their mobility needs are. So I think it's looking at the data, finding ways to craft medical practices that meet people where they are. And that's hard as we see the attacks under this administration to take away health care, to take away access to, to um, ways to pay for that. But we still have to figure out how to make sure that people get the care that they need. And then I would say we've got to make sure that we are accountable and holding local communities accountable. And I'm particularly thinking about areas like Flint, Michigan, where the water is unsafe and preliminary research is showing that that contaminated water is contributing to a large number of miscarry, miscarriages in the area and developmental disabilities in children that are being born. So we have to think about what does it mean to have more accountable government when it comes to our natural resources. What does it mean to have a more accountable police department to our communities to ensure that neighborhoods are not being policed, they're being protected? And there's a, there's a difference, right? Um, um, and then also having conversations as voters with elected officials about what does it mean to have family friendly and women's centered policies because it's critical. It's important that the activists on the ground, that work meets the law and that people can hold, people can hold elected officials accountable to the law.
Jennie: So let's flip it that then to what about the right to not have children. So also as important, and again where you see kind of the most vulnerable really being attacked on services that should be supporting them are really being attacked at the federal level and state level.
Heidi: Yeah. So the right not to have children is important for a couple of reasons. Number one, I think, you know, when we think about what a feminist future looks like, it's this idea that women are valuable even if they don't have children. And this idea that you don't have a responsibility to society to have children order to be seen as whole and happy and a and a complete woman. And so there's that piece of patriarchy that I think needs to, we need to dive deeper into that.
Jennie: I feel like hat conversation is kind of starting to happen. But I still think, you know, you definitely see, oh you are choosing to not have children and seen, I think suspicious as maybe a strong word, but like you definitely are seeing people just don't quite get, that that's not the path.
Heidi: Like how could you not have, you do not want children. So I think we need to get out of that thinking so that women who choose not to have children for whatever reason, right. It can be, they simply are on a path. They have decided to use birth control and have done so conscientiously, supported by their loved ones, their partner and use a form that is conducive with how they have sex and that works for them. In other areas it could be women who choose to have um, an abortion rather than carry a pregnancy to term. So we need to talk about family planning. We need to talk about abortion access and talk about it in a way where we're ensuring that women have comprehensive information and are making the best decision for themselves and the lives that they want to lead. And part of it is not about just supporting them to make the choice, it's about reducing stigma and taking away that shame after they've made the choice and want to continue living their lives. And that's a piece that we often forget about. So the right not to have children, um, I think is as sacred as the right to have children. And women should not have to fight against the system who thinks that they're better off sort of as, they're destined to be mothers regardless of the choices that they've made for themselves.
Jennie: Yeah, it's 2017, and I still feel like that's the dominant narrative is like that this is the a woman's path is she's going to do these things. And the obvious thing is you're going to have children and that's what people do. Full Stop. And like I said, we are starting to see that conversation change, but it's still, there's still a lot of change.
Heidi: Yeah. Slow to change.
Jennie: We touched on that a little bit by talking about, you know, the Texas law and how the case at the Supreme Court started to bring in some more marginalized voices. And I think that's so important in the, uh, when you're talking about access to abortion. Is those are the voices we really need to be hearing from. Right. Because, you know, if I were to have an unplanned pregnancy, I am supported and I live in DC so I can easily get one. But if I was back home in Wisconsin, you know, that might be different. I might be much further away from a clinic. Um, you know, women don't always have the ability to make two trips to the clinic now with waiting periods.
Heidi: That's so true.
Jennie: Find Childcare for the those times drive or get a ride or any of these many things. Yeah. So, uh, I think this, is conversation that is just really important to have about kind of all the hoops that women are having to jump through and creating a barrier, a new barrier, each and every one where the most vulnerable are no longer able to access this care that they supposedly have a right to access.
Heidi: Absolutely. You know, I actually am on my way to Texas this afternoon for a policy briefing. The idea that abortion in and of itself is the only hurdle that people are trying to create is it's actually the litmus test for a whole bunch of things. So it's sort of like once they create all these hoops and, um, roadblocks to access abortion, then they start with the access around birth control and contraception. And so at the end of the day, we're talking about a widdling away in a death by inches of trying to kill off the things that give women the most autonomy. And that's the right to control their fertility and their sexuality. And I think that people need to just really take into consideration like, it's a privilege to...It's a privilege to be in places like DC where you know, so much is readily available, but there are so many places in these red states where it's just, it's, it's virtually impossible to get what you need in a timely manner without going through all of these hoops or going through some sort of process that impedes your dignity, takes away your voice. Um, and we've got to make sure that all women, no matter where they are, can access the care that they need.
Jennie: Yeah. I always think back, like I said, I'm from Wisconsin, so I always kinda keep a close eye on what's happening there. And I think they're down to three clinics that provide abortion, but they're in Madison and Milwaukee.
Heidi: What about the rest of the state?
Jennie: And if you know about Wisconsin that's very southern Wisconsin, you're talking about a huge portion of the state that does not have access to an abortion provider, easy access to an abortion provider. That just leaves women with out access to quality care. And there are places where there are access to family planning, but you know, all of this, like you said, chips away at all of it. And so women are losing access to Planned Parenthood or other providers that are just doing family planning.
Heidi: And then you have some states that are banning things like telemedicine.
Jennie: Yeah, absolutely.
Heidi: So that women can have access via technology. Yeah. It's really just frightening, how so many lawmakers want to take us back.
Jennie: You raised a really important point about it coming for birth control as well. I think maybe like five years ago when we were like, no, seriously, this is not just about abortion, they are coming for birth control. People were like, you're crazy. Like, you... no one's coming for birth control, everybody supports family planning and no, they are really coming after access to birth control. I mean, you saw Texas eliminate all of their funding for family planning. I mean they gave it back when they saw, oh wait, this is gonna increase our spending on Medicaid for maternal health. How do you not see that they're connected?
Heidi: They're all connected. It is like the body, right? You cut off an arm, it's going to make, is going to impact the rest of the body.
Jennie: And it's like taking a step back then too and being like, well, we're not gonna do comprehensive sex ed. So they're all connected. Like you need to have all of it together.
Heidi: Yup. It needs to be consistent and it needs to be ongoing. And you know, I admire states, you know, I never thought I'd say this, but you know, Mississippi was able to pass, uh, sex education for college students. And I was just like, oh my God, I don't know if this is helpful to be able to teach people in community college about sex education. But then when I look at their unintended pregnancy rates and how hard it was to just pass that, I was like, you know what, I'll take it if this is it. You know, in some states where they just like, they shift the ground beneath you. So you really have to think through what a win looks like. But I really think that when we take for granted, I think people there, because I know a number of people who sort of feel this way, abortion's not my issue, I, you know, I don't really care. Okay, well they're coming, they're coming for an abortion first, then they're coming for contraception and then once they come for contraception, they're going after something else. So at the end of the day, it will ultimately impact you. So you may as well get involved now. Jennie: Well, yeah, cause you see when you saw this in the health care to me, right, it's like why should we cover maternal health care? Right? I'm not going to, I'm a man, I am not getting pregnant. So why shouldn't this be a required thing that's covered? Heidi: Well, depending on which man you are, you're in, you're impacted by maternal health care and you need it, otherwise you're going to pay for it down the road or in some other venue. Whether it be the emergency room or on the back end. So it's a common sense. These are common sense measures, I think, to women and people who have the lived experiences. Again, it's important to center the lived experiences of the most vulnerable, but making it make sense to the privileged few who have the resources and the wherewithal to pay for whatever comes their way is a task that we all have got to take. We all have to take up that mantle to make sure that the most vulnerable have the care that they need because it impacts all of us in the long run. It helps all of us in the long run.
Jennie: Absolutely. Okay. So the last tenant, uh, we have is really big, so I'm sure we won't be able to tackle all of it, but it's the right to nurture children you have in a safe and healthy environment. So again, it's very huge topic and I'm sure we'll do parts of it in later episodes, but if there's like a smaller way to introduce that universe.
Heidi: I mean, I think right now the hot topic on this particular subject is criminal justice and the right for, um, black and brown children to be able to exist in their communities without being policed or murdered in the street. And the reality is, um, black and brown communities have been over policed for decades now. It's becoming more visible. And we in those communities know the reality that our relationship with the police, particularly, um, in many urban areas, is antagonistic and needs to be dealt with in some way. But I think ultimately the short of it is how do we give birth and have children without our children being taken away either by the state or by meaningless, you know, violence, whether we're talking about crime in the community or we're talking about police violence against the community. And I think that's a good way to sort of, to whittle it down. Um, and again, you know, environmental justice is also a big part of that. Um, talking about the water, talking about things like power lines, um, uh, food deserts, things like that. But at the end of the day, um, no one wants to bring a child into the world knowing that that child is not going to have all of, everything that needs to thrive. Education is a big part of that and making sure that kids have, and we, we now have, I think are at a place where our schools are segregated again, more so than they were prior to Brown vs Board of Education. Like we have to have some conversations and really be willing to hold elected officials' feet to the fire to ensure that all children have the proper education that they need. And it's so controversial almost now, right. To to, to demand that public education, public education be available and be as competitive as private schools. But you know, that's where we are in 2017.
Jennie: There are so many conversations we're having now that I just, how are we still having them? Right. How? I just, it's mind boggling to me on so many issues and I think that's, it's bad that we're having them but it's important that they're being had. And for so long I think some of it was just kind of ignored and I, there's one good thing about 2017 is that more of these conversations I think are being had where people who were not previously listening are starting to hear and maybe starting to be part of it. And I think that's important.
Heidi: True. Very, very true.
Jennie: So like the conversations were had by groups that impacted, the most vulnerable. But I think you're starting to see that other people are getting involved and wanting to engage in ways that they can help. I hope.
Heidi: And I've, well I wonder, I've been wondering lately, you know, is it in part because of the group that is, that we termed the most vulnerable, is that actually expanding under many of the many of the policies and many of the cultural shifts that we're seeing. And it's not me versus them that existed 10, 20 years ago has become the #MeToo movement, right? Like it's, it's, it's no longer a group that's over there that's disconnected from me. We are all the same and we're all part of the same movement.
Jennie: I know that's a lot. So were there any big policy or other things that can be taken to help create that nurturing? Heidi: Uh, well, uh, you know, fully funding, Title X, making sure that CHIP is reauthorized.
Jennie: Which come on. How is that still...
Heidi: The Children's Heath Insurance Program. It shouldn't be a conversation, right? It should not be a conversation. We're talking about millions of children who depend on a program to get their health insurance. But it's essential. We talk about the right to parent and it's essential to make sure that um, the poorest children, the most vulnerable children in this country have the right to health insurance. I would say making sure that Title X is fully funded and that states have the resources that they need to make sure the contraception is fully available.
Jennie: And all methods methods of contraception. I'm a little worried about what's going to happen going forward on Title X. So let's put that stake. You can't just fund Title X and you need to fund the methods.
Heidi: Exactly. And then um, we still have to keep an eye on, I would never tell, I wouldn't ordinarily never say we have to be full, be prepared to be prepared to worry about this whole tax reform thing. You know, taxes aren't sexy. No one cares about them until it comes time to do your taxes at the end of the year. But because we have a tax reform bill that's in conference right now that is partially handwritten. That is, that has so many mistakes in it because that's what happens when you write something in the dead of night. You know, anyone who's ever been to grad school or had to work on a project writing something in the dead of night.
Jennie: I don't think my grad school would have accepted handwritten notes in the margins.
Heidi: Right. Or, you know, sort of pulling it together in the 11th hour is not how you pass responsible tax reform. And so the mistakes that they're finding, the errors, they're bound to impact everyone. But the piece around them, uh, repealing the, the Affordable Care Act individual mandate is going to impact all of us. It's going to impact all of us regardless of where you get your health care is going to impact all of us. And so, um,.
Jennie: And I don't feel like it's like, it's getting as much attention.
Heidi: It's not getting attention. It's not getting the attention it deserves. And so, you know, we'll see. We'll definitely see. But between that and Net Neutrality, there's no telling what they're going to slide under the radar. Um, what people aren't paying attention and you know, we want people to, I want people to take their health seriously. And that means fighting all of these different bills and different types of tactics to repeal the ACA. Um, it's important that we keep the ACA for millions of Americans.
Jennie: Absolutely. Um, so now that we've started dipped our toes and the idea of a reproductive justice and covered kind of a lot of basics, what can people do if they want to get involved on these issues? How can they get involved?
Heidi: Um, they can get involved by going to In Our Own Voice's website. It is www.blackrj.org. We are a organization that is made up of eight black reproductive justice organizations across the country and we can connect you to people on the ground who are doing everything from organizing to policy, um, efforts to different projects with young people. We can keep you in the loop and make sure that you know that you have up to date information about what's happening at the federal level regarding these policy fights.
Jennie: Thank you so much for being here, Heidi. I'm really excited to have you on one of my very first episodes. Heidi: Thank you, and I look forward to talking to you more about these issues in the future.
Heidi: Absolutely.
Jennie: For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at rePROs Fight Back. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.