Rebecca Kelliher on Her New Book: Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of a Revolution in Abortion Care

In Brazil in the 1990s, women discovered using misoprostol for safe, self-managed abortion. In 1980 in France, mifepristone was discovered and in 1988, approved. Approval in the U.S. occurred shortly thereafter, in 2000. Rebecca Kelliher, journalist and author of Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of a Revolution in Abortion Care, sits down to talk with us about her new book exploring the history of misoprostol and mifepristone.

The comprehensive approval, and global dispersion, of misoprostol and mifepristone took decades. Yet now, the most recent numbers show that 63% of U.S. abortions are medication abortions. These medications—specifically mifepristone—are under increasing attacks, with anti-abortion actors targeting telehealth prescription. In addition, lawsuits attempting to prevent the mailing of pills to states with abortion bans are becoming more frequent. While these attacks are devastating, we can look to Latin America for hope: in Argentina, underground feminist organizations formed to disperse misoprostol while the country faced a near-total abortion ban.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of a Revolution in Abortion Care
Rebecca Kelliher on Bluesky
WHO Recommendations on Self-Care Interventions, Self-Management of Medical Abortion
Abortion Experiences, Knowledge, and Attitudes Among Women in the U.S.: Findings from the 2024 KFF Women’s Health Survey
Vote for rePROs Fight Back in the Anthem Awards
Sex Radical

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Jennie: At the turn of the 20th century, the federal Comstock Act made it illegal to send information about sex, contraception, and abortion through the U.S. mail. But a little-known feminist pioneer and sex educator named Ida Craddock challenged that law and its namesake, the evangelical vice hunter, Anthony Comstock. Defending the right of a woman to control her own body, she risked everything. Sex Radical is a new documentary drama that tells the story of Ida Craddock's challenge to the oppressive Comstock regime. And it shows parallels between past and present. Today, as right-wing lawmakers seek to ban medication abortion using the very same Comstock law that Craddock once defied, her story is more important than ever. You can stream this timely and inspiring film for free for a limited time between October 31st and November 4th. Go to bit.ly/sexradicalstream to learn more. And we'll also have it linked in our show notes.

Jennie: Hey rePROs, how's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So, y'all, I am still trying to get back in the swing of things after being back from my vacation. I also received a parting gift from my vacation, which is the cold that was going around our group, which is so unfair, y'all. I had allergy problems in Venice and had to be sick while we were in Venice and then dealing with the tail end of allergies the rest of the trip. And now I got the cold that was going around. So unfair. So, I'm trying to get rid of this cough, and I sound really disgusting, and I'm sorry, y'all. I will try not to cough on mike. And I'm sure Meg will edit around it if it happens, but so unfair. But I've been having a lot of fun. I'm going through all of the pictures I took on my camera. I am only like two days into the trip because I went a little picture-happy, which honestly, I'm fine with because you have to take a lot to get a couple amazing ones. And it looks like I have some really good pictures, and I'm very excited to see them all and share them with our group that went and figure out what I want to get printed and where I want to put them and all the things. You know, maybe I'll have Elena share some on social because I took a lot while I was gone. And so, you can see some of my fun trip. I am still thinking about some of the food I ate, and now that I am back to cooking for myself, I'm a little bummed. There's not that amazing pizza on every corner or this amazing truffle carbonara I had in, I think we were still in Rome. I don't remember. Again, the hazard with going all over the places is I can't remember where things happened, but it was so delightful and so good. And the other thing I think about a lot is when we were in, I think Amalfi. When I had as much gelato as I could eat, I had it everywhere, almost every day because it was so good. And who doesn't love ice cream? Come on. But in Amalfi, the place we stopped had amazing gelato. I had one that was called “Amalfi.” It was like lemon and some other things in it. I don't remember other than it was amazing. And then I got a melon one, which y'all, it was so good. It was like the juiciest, best melon you have ever eaten as a gelato. I want to go back and eat all of it. It was so good. Anyway, can you tell I'm still thinking about vacation as I am now a week back into work and like dealing with all of the actual work things like my dumpster fire of an email or scrambling to read the book for today's interview. I forgot to take the book on vacation with me, like I had intended to try and do some reading of it, like while we were on the trains and stuff. And I absolutely forgot, which was fortuitous. That means I did not think about work very much while I was on vacation, which was very delightful to just be disconnected from all of the things. But it also meant I had to really buckle down when I got back and read the book, which was amazing. I really loved it, and I'm very excited for y'all to hear this week's interview. And I highly recommend the book on the history of the abortion pill. It's called Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of a Revolution in Abortion Care by Rebecca Kelliher. And y'all, it's great. I can't wait for y'all to hear my conversation with her. And you know what? Let's just go to my interview with Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca. Thank you so much for being here.

Rebecca: Thank you for having me.

Jennie: Before we get started, would you like to take a second and introduce yourself?

Rebecca: Sure. I'm Rebecca Kelliher. I'm a journalist and the author of the new book, Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of a Revolution in Abortion Care, which traces the history of mifepristone and misoprostol as abortion pills.

Jennie: I was just telling you before we started that I really loved your book. I feel like I learned so much. I was not doing this work when the approvals were first starting. And I remember seeing like the scare headlines around RU 486 when I was pretty young. Maybe when I was still going to Catholic school. Like, I feel like I just remember seeing them out there. So, and then it was really also fascinating then to start to get to see all the people that I like work with popping up later in the book. So, it was also very delightful. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca: I'm so glad to hear it.

Jennie: I also think I loved how you opened the book and the story from Brazil. So, maybe would you like to share that? Because I think that was such a great opening story.

Rebecca: Yeah, it's a really fascinating and I think empowering story in many ways, which is looking at kind of the other abortion pill. I think in the US, there's understandably a lot of attention on mifepristone, and we can get into why. But misoprostol has this whole other history. And basically, that medication was initially approved to treat stomach ulcers many, many years ago. And abortion was this side effect that the pharmaceutical company knew about and put on a warning label for the medication. Basically, don't use this pill if you're pregnant. And the story there is because it wasn't considered an abortion pill, misoprostol was available over the counter in pharmacies in many parts of the world. And it just so happened that in Brazil in the early 1990s, women there who were living under a near-total abortion ban discovered there were these medications over the counter in pharmacies. And oh look, there's this warning label that says, “don't use when pregnant.” Well, if I'm pregnant and I don't want to be and I don't have other avenues, what will happen if I try to take these pills? And so, women started to take the medications and had safe abortions, and they got so good at taking the medications that the maternal mortality rate actually lowered in certain parts of Brazil. And that's really when it caught the attention of researchers and of the Brazilian government, which was really not happy about what was going on with misoprostol and pretty much took it off of pharmacy shelves and restricted it. And still today, Brazil has some of the worst restrictions in the world on misoprostol for abortion care. But I think the inspiring part of that story is the way in which women themselves and pregnant capable people themselves figured out that this was a safe medication that they could use and that they helped spread the word among themselves.

Jennie: Yeah, I really love that the researchers were like, this is so weird. The maternal mortality rate is coming down so much. Like, what is happening? Yeah, I wonder why. And women were doing it for themselves. That was such a great opening, and I really loved it. I do global and domestic work, so it hit all my buttons.

Rebecca: Yeah, and still today, misoprostol is used in many parts of the world that do still have abortion bans where mifepristone isn't as available, but you can sometimes get misoprostol and have a safe abortion just with that medication. So yeah, we have a lot to thank for the women of Brazil in the early 1990s.

Jennie: So, I mean, a lot of the book is really focused on the history of mifepristone. And I really enjoyed that because there was so much that happened before I was involved in this movement. And so, it was so great to hear those stories. And I know, again, it's like a huge chunk of the book, so obviously we're not gonna get into all of that, but to me, we want to talk a little bit about this long and winding path to get mifepristone on shelves or in the pharmacy.

Rebecca: Yeah, it was definitely a long and winding path. So, the story with mifepristone is that there was this French pharmaceutical company called Roussel Uclaf, and they discovered mifepristone pretty much by accident in 1980. They were not looking for an abortion pill at all. And when they realized that it was an abortion pill, certain parts of the company totally freaked out. But there were some other advocates within the company and especially outside of the company who saw the huge potential for this medication and fought really hard for the company to pursue tons of research on the pill. And basically, after many, many years of research and advocacy, 1988, France approves mifepristone for medication abortions. And then there was huge drama because Roussel Uclaf—that company that had the patent for mifepristone—basically withdrew mifepristone from the French market, even though France had already approved it. And that caused that led to front-page mainstream press coverage. And there's this famous moment where the French Minister of Health at the time comes forward and says, no, no, no, Roussel Uclaf, you can't do this. Mifepristone, it's not the property of a drug company. It is, quote, "the moral property of women." I love that. And so, then they forced, yeah, they forced the company to put mifepristone back on the market. And mifepristone also, I think you mentioned this earlier, it was known at that time as RU 486, which basically the RU stands Roussel Uclaf, and 486 is just like the 486th molecule that the company discovered. But that's what they meant. And then after the French approval of mifepristone in 1988, there's this whole other saga, which I can quickly go into, which is okay, well, what about the US? We know, right, that the FDA approval for mifepristone here didn't happen until 2000. But people were working hard on this medication going back to the '80s. And pretty much in a nutshell, the resistance to getting the abortion pill or mifepristone here in the US came down to the potential that both the pro-choice movement at that time saw and the anti-abortion movement for this medication to radically expand abortion access. And at that time, there's rising anti-abortion extremist violence in the US, targeting abortion clinics. You have the first assassination of an abortion provider that happens in 1993, so just a few years after mifepristone, you know, comes onto the French market. So, all of that really heightens the tension for trying to get this pill into the US. And I can go into more detail about that, but I think what's really important is to understand the promise that this pill held and the hopes that so many feminists had for it. And then the reality once it did actually get approved in 2000, but the FDA put a lot of restrictions on the medication that really did limit access for you know 20 years.

Jennie: Yeah, I think I didn't have a great understanding of all of the guidelines that were in place at the beginning because of the way it was tested with requiring three visits and stuff. Like I came into this work later when that had been shortened. So, it was shocking. And it even started before, didn't you say, with four at one point? And that's crazy.

Rebecca: Yeah. When France rolled out mifepristone, you know, or as part of medication abortion, they had four clinic visits required for people, which is nuts when you think about it today with telehealth abortion, and you don't have to have a clinic visit at all. So, it's definitely a lot of anxiety that the government had, that providers had at the time, around, oh my gosh, women having abortions with these pills by themselves, what does that mean? And in hindsight, it does seem ridiculous. But I think it's also important to keep in mind that some of the worries really were that they had to be so careful in the very beginning because there's so much fear that if one thing went wrong or was perceived as going wrong, that would be it for the medication. So, that's something that came up as well as my reporting with talking with some of the first French doctors, for instance, who did the very first trials with mifepristone.

Jennie: Yeah, that makes total sense for like the logic behind it. I think the other story that I felt like was very much in parallel to the story you were telling was women not being in these spaces as we were going through the approval processes. Or maybe there was one woman who was on a research team or a policy team. And that really jumped out to me as we were following the approval process along for thinking about how women would use or what guardrails needed to be around it.

Rebecca: Yeah, that was something that also really stood out to me in the reporting process. And I write a lot about this one researcher, Dr. Beverly Winikoff, who is one of the only women who is researching the medication here in the US. And she testified during the FDA's advisory committee hearing on mifepristone, which was in 1996. And it was pretty much to decide just based on the science, just based on the data, is this a safe medication? And what was really fascinating to me is what Dr. Winikoff's research was really focusing on: what do women actually think about these pills? Like, who has actually taken them? How do they describe the experiences in their own words? And that was like not, that was sort of like an addendum almost to the whole FDA consideration of the medication, which is sort of fascinating, um, that that wouldn't be considered more central, but it kind of wasn't. And it just so happened that a lot of people who took the medications preferred it to or at least said that they preferred it to having a procedural abortion.

Jennie: I think the other thing that really stood out because it was like so early in the process were all of the hopes advocates had at the time as they were first talking about it, and then to see like where we are now, it was just so striking.

Rebecca: Yeah, I write about this Time magazine cover in 1993 that was about mifepristone, and it said: "The pill that changes everything." And the truth is it didn't, at least not at that point. And now we're seeing a really different story, but it took a very long time to get here. But I think that's something that came up a lot with the interviews I did with these early advocates and early researchers of the medications is it's like it's gratifying to see that finally, finally, the potential we talked about is being reached, where now more than two-thirds of abortions in the US are done with pills. We know that one in four abortions in the US are provided via telehealth abortion. But boy, that took a really long time. It's, like, 25 years almost, you know?

Jennie: Yeah. And the world they were thinking of where women could just very easily have access...and reading that and hearing those hopes and seeing how far away we were—and in many ways still are—was really striking.

Rebecca: Yeah, something that was striking to me too was, like, a big hope that those early advocates had was that there would be kind of once you had the FDA approval of mifepristone, you could roll out medication abortion, that surely then any doctor could prescribe these pills, right? It wouldn't have to necessarily be the person at the abortion clinic. It could be the OB/GYN that you usually see, or it could be your family medicine doctor, your primary care doctor. There was just all of this hope that that would happen. And it just didn't, sadly. And there are lots of reasons that came up in my reporting as for why that could be, but one of it did have to do with stigma around abortion and being labeled as the abortion provider in your community and what that would mean for you and your family, which is really sad, but is part of the history.

Jennie: Yeah. Thinking of being able to just go to your family care provider and get access, like that's amazing. One, if you want to go the medical route, like, you talk about self-managed abortion and things as well, but just thinking it could be so easy. It's, again, a very different world than where we're at at the moment. And you talked about how important pills have become, right? They are the majority of abortions right now. But we are also seeing pills come under attack, particularly mifepristone right now. Do you want to talk a little bit about what we're seeing with that as well?

Rebecca: Yes. So, because mifepristone, like I said before, that's the pill that's registered for abortions rather than misoprostol, it's mifepristone that is more subject to anti-abortion attacks, at least right now, because there's a more straightforward path to controlling them or attempting to control them. And so, we're seeing different prongs of attacks right now, one of which is to pressure the FDA to basically get rid of telehealth abortion nationwide. The way how that would work, it would basically require the agency to ignore the data that they based that initial decision on, which was first made temporarily in 2021 because of the COVID-19 pandemic and then was made permanent in 2023. And so, we've seen the safety of telehealth abortion in this country since then, right? So, it would really be a huge, huge move if the agency decided to go back on what it had already decided. But we also see that RFK Jr., the current Secretary of Health and Human Services, has been pressuring the FDA to pretty much do just that. The other thing that I want to highlight is there—and I know that you've had people on this podcast before talk at length about this—but the attacks with litigation to try to stop what are called telehealth abortion "shield laws" in certain states. And states that have those laws on the books—I believe there are about eight states right now that have them—they lower the legal risk for the providers in those states to mail abortion pills to people who are based in states with abortion bans or severe abortion restrictions. And we know that they're mailing thousands of pills a month to people, and the majority of those pills are going to people living in banned states. But we are seeing lawsuits against those laws, against those telehealth abortion shield laws. We don't know what will happen next, but those are two avenues that the anti-abortion movement is trying to pursue. In addition to just spreading the misinformation, or I should say, disinformation, that these pills are unsafe, which is not true.

Jennie: And I think one of the things your book really makes clear is just how heavily studied and how much research there is around the safety of these pills.

Rebecca: Yeah. So, I think that's something that maybe sometimes people based here in the US kind of forget is: it's not just the amount of research that we have here in this country; it's when you look at all of the research globally that we also have about the safety of these medications and just how ridiculous it actually is to say that they cause harm.

Jennie: Yeah. And I think the other thing, like, yes, we're also seeing the attacks on the shield laws, but the case that went to the Supreme Court last year is not dead, right? Like it's being, it still could come back. And again, would attack access to the FDA approval of those expanded telehealth options. And something abortion advocates know and the antis, I'm sure, know, is that what that would mean for access to abortion in this country is just how absolutely devastating it would be. We do not have the infrastructure if we have to go back to all these in-person visits to ensure that people who need the abortion can get it.

Rebecca: Absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up that case, the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine v. FDA case, I believe that's what it's called. But what's important to note, I think, about that is: the Supreme Court, they dismissed that case last year, but they dismissed it on standing, not on the merits of the case.

Jennie: What, the dentist didn't have standing?

Rebecca: And so, that's just so important to keep in mind because it basically is kind of like allowed for them to have a bit of a loophole that they could exploit if the right case comes before the court. And the same justices that decided Dobbs might then basically, as you just said, try to stop telehealth abortion nationwide. So yeah, I'm glad that you're bringing attention to that.

Jennie: I think the other thing that was really great about your book is you followed the process of mife, but you also then went back to various, in particular Latin American countries, talking about what was happening there and how access was expanding there. Do we want to touch on that for a little bit? Because I also think that is a really important story.

Rebecca: Yeah, that's super important and also I think pretty inspiring. So, kind of like what we were talking about before with misoprostol being generally more available than mifepristone. I write about a couple of countries in Latin America, but mainly about Mexico and Argentina. And I'll just highlight Argentina, I think. So, the people there had a near-total abortion ban until pretty recently, until 2020, where now abortion is banned up until 14 weeks with some restrictions as well for later abortion care. But what I write about is how there are these feminist networks that grew in Argentina while under a near-total abortion ban. And they really flourished in the 2010s using misoprostol—and mifepristone if they could get it—but misoprostol was, you could still find that in some pharmacies. And what's amazing to me is just how organized they were, and it started out more as a harm reduction strategy: like, how do we get people safe care under this ban with these pills for now, while we want to also change the law and make this legal? And they still—the Socorristas en Red, that's the name of this feminist activist network—they still are operating right now, and they still are supporting people through their abortions with pills. But something else that's super amazing to me about this network is they actually contributed to our understanding of abortion pills. And they were very deliberate about partnering with epidemiologists, with researchers to try to document their work and to expand our knowledge of safe, self-managed abortion care with misoprostol-only or misoprostol and mifepristone. And their research was so influential that it helped shape the current World Health Organization guidelines for abortion care with pills, which basically state that you actually, if you are using the pills early in pregnancy and you have the right protocols, the right information—which the World Health Organization has available—you don't need to have the support of a licensed clinician with you. It's different if you want that, but you can still have a safe and effective abortion without that. And we are a long, long way here in the US, I think, from that potential of over-the-counter abortion pills, which is really what that would be. But the evidence that we have, you know, from the World Health Organization—thanks in large part to the brave work of these activists in Argentina and in other parts of the world—I think points to a future where that could actually be a possibility. And in some ways, you know, that would bring us back to the misoprostol origin story, where women in Brazil had misoprostol over the counter. So yeah, things that we can work towards.

Jennie: I'm really glad you brought up the World Health Organization guidelines because that was so important. Not only did it outline the two different protocols—so, the mife and miso one and the misoprostol-only one—but it also talked about that there shouldn't be bans restricting- gestational bans, there should not be bans restricting coverage. It was really amazing to see the World Health Organization take such a strong stance when there had been reluctance before.

Rebecca: Yeah, and I think that also just highlights how the US really is globally such an outlier with having regressed on abortion rights in this country.

Jennie: So, I think the other thing that would be nice to hear about is what can the US learn from the Latin American countries you talked about? We've talked about on the podcast before about what we can learn from the green wave movement, but this is a little bit different. Like, what can we learn about how they were able to ensure people were getting pills when there were bans?

Rebecca: I've thought about this a lot because I think what's important is it's not like a copy-paste kind of situation. And yeah, you were pretty clear about that. Like, the ban there was, like, a little bit different. Basically, the criminalization threats that these networks were facing are not like what networks here in the US are facing in states with abortion bans like Texas and Alabama. But I think that the main takeaway that I had from networks like Socorristas in Argentina is: they built strong alliances with people in the healthcare sector and the legal sector to try to protect themselves and the people that they were helping. And they were really contextually aware. So, they just were very deliberate about the security concerns and trying to protect the confidentiality of the people that they helped. And I think that is something that I know from my reporting that some of the on-the-ground community networks here in the US that face really high criminalization risks have taken a lot of lessons from just being really careful and deliberate with their alliances. Yeah, and I think that there's also something kind of beautiful about all of these networks seeing themselves as part of this larger global movement and this sense of solidarity, which especially now in this country, um, you know, with so much that can feel overwhelming and demoralizing, I think that alone can be really powerful.

Jennie: Yeah, it's so great to feel part of a bigger movement and that we are all working to these same ends. I also really loved the importance of sharing information and making sure that people have the information they need. And even if you can't supply the pills, you're helping people find where they can get them or knowing what the protocols are, like everybody kind of has their role to play in this moment. And I mean, obviously I host a podcast, so I think information is important in making sure that people know these things. So, we'll definitely make sure to link in our show notes the WHO protocol so that everybody has it on hand. But yeah, it's always just important to get the information out there.

Rebecca: Yeah, and I should have also mentioned something that was really important to a lot of these networks that I write about in the book was to try to destigmatize abortion with one-on-one real conversations with people who they themselves are having an abortion or considering one, or somebody in their life has, and just trying to make it less scary. And I think, you know, Las Libres in Mexico, which is one accompaniment network, I interviewed them, and they some of their members were talking about how they noticed that sometimes the stigma around abortion from the people that they were accompanying what went back to a lack of information, like went back to fears, like, oh my gosh, if I take these medications, I'm gonna die or something. And that it was all connected. So, I think that's also something that we can all learn from.

Jennie: Yeah, I feel like I see this in a different way, like earlier in the in this career, seeing all of the reasons why people, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa, were not using like family planning, like all of the fears and myths and misinformation that were floating around that were keeping people from using something that they maybe wanted to use. And that's powerful. And again, you know, I mentioned I went to Catholic school, so like you definitely get steeped in that stigma. One, everywhere, like abort abortion stigma is kind of everywhere, but also growing up going to Catholic school from K through eight, meant that there was just like a bunch of it that floated around. So, when you know, when those articles about mife were first coming out, I was in Catholic school. And so, were the articles really super negative on that, or was that like what I was hearing reflected being in Catholic school at the time?

Rebecca: Yeah, I went to Catholic school too, so I understand.

Jennie: Yeah.

Jennie: I had sex ed from a nun. "Sex ed"—heavily air quoted—from a nun. Lots of stories there, I'm sure. Super helpful, super helpful. Okay, so we always like to end the podcast focusing on things our audience can do. So, how can the audience get involved in this moment?

Rebecca: Well, I'm sure your audience is super well informed already, but I will just say try to get involved with your local abortion fund in some way. It doesn't have to mean donating, but that would be great. It could also mean volunteering. They're still around and they're still supporting a lot of people. And we saw a big surge in donations to abortion funds right after Dobbs, but there has been really important reporting on how we've seen a lot of that dry up, basically, as like once that rage giving, so to speak, has kind of slowed down. So, don't forget about them. I think something else people can do is talk about abortion with the people in your life if you haven't already tried to do that. I found out there was this KFF survey that came out last year that said that only one in five women of reproductive age in the US know that they can get abortion pills online. So, that's pretty low. So, I think that you might be surprised that people around you don't actually have basic information about the different avenues to get pills or just abortion care in general. And then I'd also say if you're in a position where you feel comfortable doing so, safe doing so, look into advanced provision of pills. This is basically where you can get abortion pills prescribed and mailed to you to have around just in case. Um, and you can get it from trusted sources like Aid Access. If you're not sure about the legal risks of you doing so, perhaps, depending on where you live, I'd encourage you to call If/When/How's Repro Legal Helpline. They will give free and confidential legal advice depending on your situation. And you can turn to Plan C or to I Need An A to just understand all of your abortion access options.

Jennie: I always like to talk about how important it is to make yourself a resource for your community and your network. And that does not mean you need to know all the things. But if you have a friend who comes to you, you maybe know where to point them, right? You don't need to know where people can go to this specific place to buy abortion pills, but you know about Plan C pills, or you can point them to If/When/How if they have questions. You don't need to be able to answer them, but knowing these resources is really important. So, when people ask questions, you can send them to the right places to get the help they need. I love that. Rebecca, thank you so much for being here. It was such a pleasure to talk to you and congratulations on your book. It was really great.

Rebecca: Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to be here.

Jennie: Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Rebecca. Like I said, we'll make sure to have a link to her book on Bookshop. I do really recommend it. I loved learning so much more about the history of abortion pills. It was just so fascinating and a great story. We will also make sure to link in the show notes some of the places she mentioned, like Aid Access, Plan C Pills; we'll include the WHO protocol as well. So, we'll have a bunch of information for you so that you can find everything you need all in one place. And with that, I will see everybody next week. [music outro]

Jennie: If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com, or you can find us on social media or at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all.