The Sharp Increase in Reproductive Violence Post-Dobbs

Trigger Warning: In this episode we talk about intimate partner violence. If you need help or to talk to someone you can call or chat the National Domestic Violence Hotline at https://www.thehotline.org/ 1-800-799-SAFE or the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN) at https://www.rainn.org/ 1-800-656-HOPE.

Over the course of a single year, more than 12 million people are victims of intimate partner violence in the United States. In the year since the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade, the National Domestic Violence Hotline has seen a 98 percent increase in survivors mentioning reproductive coercion as part of their experience as compared to the year before. Marium Durrani, Vice President of Policy at the National Domestic Violence Hotline sits down to talk with us about the rise of intimate partner violence and domestic violence after the overturning of Roe.  

Reproductive coercion, violence, or abuse involves behaviors that intend to maintain power and control related to reproductive health in a relationship. When this type of abuse occurs, an individual’s ability to control their own life, body, and safety is called into question. This type of abuse has greatly increased since the Dobbs decision, and the ability to access sexual and reproductive healthcare-- including abortion-- faces more barriers. Interference by a partner to be economically independent, move freely, and communicate freely, may also prevent a person from accessing care.

Links from this episode

National Domestic Violence Hotline on Twitter
National Domestic Violence Hotline on Facebook
Plan C
Abortionfinder.org
Ineedana.com
Repro Legal Helpline
Repro Legal Defense Fund
Digital Defense Fund

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to RePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. [music intro]

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Hi RePROs! How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, it is September already. How did that happen? I don't really know where this summer went. It, like, went by in a flash, and I feel like I didn't get out and enjoy it as much as I should have. That's okay, because I, y'all, I am actually really a fall girl. I love when it starts to get cool out. I love apples and, like, pumpkin pie spice things, and I just apparently am very much a fall girl. Love it. Ready for spooky season and for spooky season reads. For an apple crisp. I'm excited already, even though I've not had any of those things yet. I am ready. I am recording this early, so hopefully I'm coming off a very restful and relaxing long weekend. My goal is to take Friday off and have a nice chill four day weekend to just relax, do some reading, and just have a quiet recharge before I get into the fall where things are gonna start to get hectic with the end of the fiscal year coming up for the government and trying to make sure that we see good repro funding things happening and yeah, hopefully, fingers crossed, right? So, rest and recharge before that battle. I'm ready. And then ramping up for I think, kind of a busy-ish fall. There's some things coming that I'm really excited to share with y'all, but we're not quite there yet. But stay tuned 'cause there will be some fun announcements coming. I can't wait. But yeah, I'm really excited for what is to come this fall. So, with that, I think we're ready to just turn to this week's episode. And before we get there, I just wanna give a trigger warning. We are going to be talking about domestic violence and intimate partner violence, particularly reproductive violence or reproductive coercion. So, if you are not in a place to listen to that right now, you know, listen to this later, or we'll see you next week for, or in two weeks for another episode. Just do what you need to do to take care of yourself and if you need a resource, make sure that you reach out to the Domestic Violence Support Hotline. You can find them at thehotline.org, or you can call them if you need someone to talk to at 1-800-799-SAFE. And they also have a chat feature available on their website, or you can do text to talk, and that's text "START" to 88788. So they're a great resource. Reach out to them if you need somebody to talk to. So, this week, as I said, we are gonna be talking about domestic violence, intimate partner violence, by talking about the rise in reproductive violence that we have seen since post-Dobbs. And I am very excited to have with me today Marium Durrani with the National Domestic Violence Hotline to talk to us about this. So, with that, let's turn to my interview with Marium.

Hi, Marium. Thank you so much for being here today.

Marium: Thanks so much for having me.

Jennie: Okay. Before we get started, do you wanna do a quick introduction and include your pronouns?

Marium: Sure. My name is Marium Durrani. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the Vice President of Policy at the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

Jennie: I'm very excited to have you here today to talk about this rise in reproductive violence we're seeing post-Dobbs, but I thought maybe a good place to start would be taking some steps back. I know I was young and experienced intimate partner violence and wasn't aware of, like, this whole range of violence that is considered domestic violence, intimate partner violence, you know, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, I didn't come to see the violence I experienced until much later when I started doing this repro work and started to talk about these issues and was like, oh, all of these red flags I didn't see or didn't realize. And so, I think it would be really helpful to start there. So, what is domestic violence, intimate partner violence?

Marium: Yeah. Well, I'm so glad that you are able to share your experience and so glad that you've been able, you know, able to heal and recognize what situation you're in. Domestic violence also known as intimate partner violence, sometimes relationship abuse—all those terms are sometimes interchangeable, lots of times people feel like one resonates with them more than the other—typically, we identify all of those as a pattern of behavior used by one partner to maintain power and control over another partner. So, that can include controlling another person's access to their support system—sometimes family and friends, sometimes larger community, sometimes money and resources, sometimes healthcare, which I know we're gonna talk about today sometimes, you know, access to their jobs, access to their transportation. We know that this control can take many, many different forms—sometimes emotional, verbal, sometimes physical. Of course, as society continues to evolve and change, the ways that a person can exert control also continue to evolve. So, we're seeing much more online abuse and harassment. We're seeing, you know, much more economic abuse. Things like credit scores are very important, loans, jobs, you know, the way we live. So, really, really unfortunately, a lot of insidious ways for a person who's choosing to harm another, to exert control over their partner. Unfortunately, intimate partner violence in this country is very, very common. It affects millions of people each year. Looking at the most recent CDC estimate, they've said it affects about 12 million people each year. And unfortunately, we know that number is actually much, much higher because those are just people who are choosing to report and choosing to share their experience. So, unfortunately, very common.

Jennie: Yeah, I think that's, again, one of those things that...reporting means you have to know that you experienced it. And especially when I was younger, the way domestic violence was talked about was very focused on physical violence. There wasn't this broader understanding of the full range of topics that fall under intimate partner violence and domestic violence. So, I did not come to understand it, like I said earlier, until I started doing this work and learning more about it. So that means, like, I would've never considered myself one of those people, so I wouldn't have reported if I was ever asked. And so, I can definitely see how those numbers get skewed and are low when it comes to self-reporting particularly.

Marium: Absolutely. And that's always a great reason to check out the resources at the hotline. You can find us at thehotline.org, and you can always call or chat or text us. I know you're gonna include our number, but I can just say it out for the lines. It's 1-800-799-7233 which is 1-800-799-SAFE. You can always chat us at the hotline, and you can even text us if that is your preferred method of communication; you can just text "START" to 88788. And you should not feel like you [need to be] grappling with something serious or something you are able to identify what's happening to you to reach out to us. You can ask about, you know, what's happening in your relationship. We can talk about healthy behaviors. You know, our advocates are highly trained, they're trauma informed, they're fantastic. I love working with them. And, you know, the core of what we do, and they're there for anyone who calls just seeking information, maybe just curious. And it doesn't have to be a survivor themselves. Sometimes it's friends, sometimes it's family. Sometimes it feels like it's a person who's engaging in bad behavior. Everyone is welcome to reach out and I definitely recommend using us as a resource. That's what we're here for.

Jennie: Yeah, this just makes me think of like, this ties into like my other favorite topic, and that’s comprehensive sexuality education and, like, the importance of teaching about healthy relationships in comprehensive sexuality education and how rare that is. Right?

Marium: Yeah. How would we know? How would we know? Exactly.

Jennie: Okay. So, let's focus on today's topic and that's reproductive coercion. So maybe we should spend a little bit of time talking about what that is and what it looks like.

Marium: Sure. So, I know you're using the term reproductive coercion, but it's also often interchanged with reproductive abuse, reproductive violence, but again, it's involving those behaviors that are intended to maintain, again, power and control in a relationship related in particular to reproductive health. So, that can include explicit attempts to impregnate someone against their will, to control the outcome of a pregnancy, however that person desires, even coercing a partner into sexual behavior that they may or may not wanna do. We know the range of sexual activity is broad, so there's many, many things that someone can try to convince or manipulate or intimidate someone's doing. It can even be interfering with contraceptive methods. It can be canceling appointments; it could be even going to appointments and just being there. You know, unfortunately there are so different ways if a person is choosing to harm someone else and control them...many, many ways that they can also use existing sex systems and reproductive health to unfortunately control someone.

Jennie: Yeah, I have to say, this is not something that even working in this field, like, didn't come top of my mind, like thinking of intimate partner violence and domestic violence and like, I should clearly know better to know that this is part of that. So, I think it's really important to talk about it and to kind of get that understanding of what it looks like and how it relates to reproductive health decisions.

Marium: Yeah, again, I think it's hard to know. The connections aren't always straightforward, but I think a principle that has been really central to our work is, you know, central to living a life free from violence is an individual's ability to control their life. You know, including their safety, their healing whether someone is choosing to leave abusive relationship or harmful relationship, or whether they're trying to make decisions about, you know, what sorts of relationships they wanna engage in, people they want and their lives, you know, the ability to control their own body is really central to that, and we don't always think about that but it can also mean the difference between living a life free of violence and potentially be being tied to someone who is choose who's choosing to cause them harm. And those restrictions on access to reproductive health you know, whether it's free and legal and safe proportions, or whether it's birth control or whether it's even reproductive planning, or having health professionals to talk about all of these things that unfortunately a lot of people are not educated on and don't have access to in the day-to-day parts of their lives is really valuable in terms of living freely and living safely and also living free from violence.

Jennie: Okay. I think the one thing that prompted this conversation today is that this is, you've seen a change in this post-Dobbs, so what are y'all seeing?

Marium: Yes. So, we have been looking at reproductive abuse and coercion more kind of even before the Dobbs case. We always see trends unfortunately reflected in our lives. And whether that's day-to-day events, sometimes you see stuff in the media, sometimes people are just really impacted by, like, the affordable housing crisis. And sometimes, you know, as different states were thinking about abortion restrictions, reproductive specific pieces of legislation, bills, all that people contact us to talk about those experiences. And unfortunately, the really awful thing that we see is abusive partners and those who engage in harmful behavior will use any tool in their toolbox to control their partner. So, even the threat of these restrictions is a fantastic tool of intimidation and power control. So, the hotline has actually seen a 98% increase in survivors mentioning reproductive coercion as part of their experience in the one year since the Dobbs decision as compared to the year before. So much, much more. And I think to that point too, people are learning much more about the connections and people are unfortunately living the connection and then also reaching out for support. So, some really, really challenging, challenging stories that, you know, are being told by individuals reaching out and reported by our advocates.

Jennie: Yeah, and I think one of the ways that we have originally talked about this on the podcast was when we talked about The Turnaway Study and that showed people who were turned away from accessing wanted abortions were more likely to stay with abusive partners. And so, it's all connected, right? So even if this isn't reproductive coercion on the form of the partner per se, it still leads people to stay in an abusive relationship when they weren't able to get access to the care they wanted.

Marium: Yeah, and I think unfortunately we see all sorts of things along the lines. You know, some stories that have really stuck with me are about you know, someone called and shared that they had an unplanned pregnancy and their boyfriend was so mad at them and accused them of purposely screwing up contraception engaging in violence against them and telling they were forced to get an abortion, and scheduled the appointment for them. And another caller shared a younger caller. Again, our services are completely free, anonymous, and confidential. So, the only information that we have is what people choose to share. Sometimes people don't choose to share anything. This caller identified as a younger person, 18 years old and they were in an abusive partnership with someone who was much, much older. And she hasn't told anyone that she was pregnant because she knew that it was tying her to a potentially abusive partner. And she was in a state where access to abortion is restricted. So in a really, really tough, complicated situation in terms of not having the financial resources to find safety elsewhere. And then other things that we hear that are generally just terrifying in the world are, you know, that interference with contraception, sabotaging birth control. Sometimes partners throw birth control away. You know, we've heard poking holes in condoms, we've heard destroying condoms, we've heard infertility used as an excuse for, you know, not using condoms, forcing someone to engage in sex when they don't want to, all of that stuff that is really terrifying to think about, but when people just cannot access the care that they need, it just limits the choices that they can make for their life, again, interfering with their safety and really limiting their options.

Jennie: Yeah, and I feel like I've also heard stories of, you know, these restrictions or bans being used as a weapon by abusers where they're threatening to report people for self-managing or any number of things where they think they're violating the law and using law enforcement as another way to abuse their partners.

Marium: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people get creative, and I think that is the terrifying thing about living in a world where people want to exert control over each other in a relationship, is that people will use whatever tools that they have available to them. And unfortunately, this kind of mirrors some of the issues with domestic violence, intimate partner violence and even relationship abuse to begin with, right? Shame, stigma, societal views, what people's opinions are, all impact the ability of someone to come forward to share their experience, to be believed. And we know that with things like abortion, a variety of different aspects of reproductive health and reproductive justice, those things include shame, stigma. People aren't always comfortable sharing their experience, even comfortable getting help, all of those things. So, then it makes it even much more complicated when their options are restricted in terms of what's available to them.

Jennie: And it also makes me think of the, again, going back to that broader world of domestic violence and intimate partner violence, if your partner is choosing to- is abusing you with economic abuse, like then you don't have the money to access the care you need. You may not be able to travel to get the care you need if you have to travel very far. Like these are all interconnected in many, many ways.

Marium: That is such a good point. I don't even think people think about the economic impact of these restrictions. You know, financial abuse happens in all of these different ways, but ultimately includes someone's access to the financial resources that someone else has. So if someone can't access their own fund, that can't access their own job, can't, you know, if their partner is interfering with their capacity to work, that can result in really, really severe constraints, not only in their ability to seek reproductive healthcare, our ability to seek abortion, but also then the ability to potentially have a child, which is unfortunately still very expensive, and then also care for that child in the future. And it implicates things like childcare, it implicates things like work and then a forced pregnancy can, I mean, continued dependence on a harmful partner because someone may not have the financial freedom and the freedom and the resources to do anything else other than just survive with them and then potentially now a new child in that situation.

Jennie: Yeah and, like, then that person being tied to their life for a long time, even if they are able to separate, they still have this child.

Marium: Yeah.

Jennie: It's long term, right? Like this, all this all just feels terrible. What do we need to happen to fix this? I mean, there are like so many ways we could take that question, right? Like, there's the abortion fixes, there's abuse, but like how do we try to end this, right? Like, I feel like there's been this talk about really making efforts to stop domestic violence for so long, but what needs to happen.

Marium: Yeah. I really think about- so, well, I think about it in many pieces also. It's overwhelming. We could be here for, you know, we could write a thesis on this, but I think thinking about some of that shame and stigma is a really, really easy way for anyone and everyone who interacts with any other human beings to help shift the societal narrative on violence, on reproductive justice and reproductive health. The more people that are comfortable having these discussions, learning about what's healthy, what's not healthy, educating others is a really, really powerful intervention. And also prevention, you know, for things that might happen in the future. And then building upon that, you know, there are a lot of fixes that potentially need to happen around the whole country. You know, sometimes federal level changes take a long time, you know, we're seeing a lot of state level protections happening. These are things that affect pretty much everyone we know. So, a really necessary thing to get involved in. I think people sometimes aren't familiar with the ways that they can do their civic engagement by getting involved in their state and local governments. You know, things are even specific to their jurisdictions, their towns, their communities. People pass like, you know, their cities in a country that have paid leave and the state doesn't. So, thinking things can go on the really, really granular level, and I think people think about it as a huge overwhelming issue. But sometimes we need to be looking at what we could do on a micro level and in the spaces that are accessible to us. So, it doesn't need to be a huge overwhelming lift for everyone. And that huge overwhelming lift, unfortunately, is a responsibility of a lot of others. And there are a lot of great advocates and organizations and, and people you know, around the whole country who are really, really working to try to fix this—from a legislative standpoint, from a policy standpoint and all of that stuff. But, you know, the future of that is unknown. So, it really takes all of us kind of uniting against principles that we really believe in, which should be living a life free from violence, which also means access to all of these resources, you know, and how we do that day to day.

Jennie: Yeah. And I really, as someone who works at the federal level a lot-

Marium: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: -watching the fights over the Violence Against Women Act the last several years, it's just been enraging of how it got politicized when it's just trying to expand access to care to all people who need it. And it's just very frustrating. So, there are so many things happening on so many levels, like you said, that it's just really important we're making sure that everybody has access to the care they need.

Marium: I feel like it's often said that the opposite of despair is advocacy. So, you know, sometimes it's good to center yourself there. I do think that working on a federal level, sometimes things can feel not only overwhelmingly exhausting and sad but just like the needle will not shift. But I think what really gives me hope for the future is all of, frankly, the state and local and micro advocacy that's happening, people who are helping individual survivors, the people who are providing that individualized support. You know, I litigated very early on in my career and it was a very, you know, one-on-one sort of interaction, but, you know, helping find someone find freedom and safety is worth it, even if it's just one person. So, I think it's good to remember that it doesn't feel like that in this environment right now.

Jennie: Yeah. And I also feel hope, I feel like the conversations that young people are having are just getting at this issue so much, this more expansive view, this better understanding of what intimate partner violence looks like better than for sure my generation did when they were, when I was their age. So, it is hopeful to see that there is this broader understanding happening and the connections are being made in better ways. So, you know, even as it feels like a lot of things stay the same, the conversation is progressing in a lot of helpful ways.

Marium: Yeah. And I think related to that too, I would shout out our Healthy Relationships project called Love is Respect. We have a whole other helpline for those who are curious about that, but we also work with the youth council, they’re so incredible. And I think it's just so amazing to hear a perspective from young people about their experiences and what it looks like to live authentically as yourself and live safely and live freely. And I think there's a lot of lessons for that to be learned by all of us and also by policymakers and by advocates and all that in terms of what we take to try to fix things and what we offer to everyone in terms of, you know, their life and their freedom and their safety and their wellbeing.

Jennie: Okay. I feel like we already kind of touched on this, but I always like to wrap up with what can our audience do? Like, what specific things can the audience do to take action and help on these issues?

Marium: Yeah, I think that unfortunately since a lot of these issues are tied to economics, it’s donate to your favorite local charities, donate to your favorite national charities. But other than that, like I said, civic engagement can sometimes feel really overwhelming...you feel like a drop in the bucket, but it is elected officials' responsibilities to be responsive to their constituents. And I don't think that people bother their elected officials enough both on the local level and the state level and the federal level. So, you know, I think that's really important. And I think the other thing too is to share you know, amongst yourselves, to your friends, to your families, to your support groups. Maybe it's a good book club topic, maybe it's a good community service project topic. As we bring more light to this, I think shifting the narrative is a really, really important part of what it takes to help change these restrictions and really help offer people options. I think what is really an interesting highlight to this work is that in violence, in reproductive justice, there's no size-fits-all solution to anything. And unfortunately, a lot of what we offer from, from the policy level, from the legal level, even from the resource level to, you know, the benefits that we offer are often one-size-fits-all. But I think that is something that we can all unite around is that people just need options for whatever they're going through. And something that we can do is rattle around fussing about how people need that to the people who can make a difference and hopefully we'll see those changes.

Jennie: These are all wonderful and I think I would add one, and that's one of the things we've talked about on the podcast before, is the important role that abortion storytellers have played.

Marium: Yeah.

Jennie: And the same goes true in domestic violence, right? As people shared their stories, people got- the broader public was able to understand what is happening better. So, if you would like to, if you feel you're in a safe place, I think being able to share your story, even if it's not, even if it's just like little bits of it or parts of it, or even if it's just claiming that you're a survivor, if that's a word that works for you, like, finding a way to participate if that is something you want to do. Like, I always took, like, small steps forward in mine and I think you would be saddened, happy, surprised, like there's so many emotions of finding you're not alone. There's probably a lot of people, you know, who maybe in a similar situation or we're in a similar situation. And there is a bit of a sense of community from connecting with those people. So again, this is a, if you, if this is something you feel up to, would like to do, I think there's a lot of support out there.

Marium: And I would just support the power of storytelling. I actually gotta interview Dr. Judith Herman yesterday who wrote a book called Truth and Repair*. It's all about trauma and healing. And she talks so much about how acknowledgement is part of that trauma process and also healing. We know that storytelling, you know, sometimes one story to the right person can create the change that a gazillion advocates knocking on doors have been trying to make. I think we see that all the time. And I think there's power in stories—sharing that to the people who can make change, but also just sharing that with each other. So, I really, really am glad you highlighted that point.

Jennie: Yeah. And if you're not up for sharing your story, it's okay.

Marium: Yeah.

Jennie: Do what is right for you. Well, Marium, thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed talking to you.

Marium: It was great. Thank you so much for having me.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Marium. It was wonderful to talk to her about what they are seeing on the hotline right now. And again, if you need someone to talk to, reach out to the hotline.org. You can find more information on their website, you can chat on their websites, or you can call 1-800-799-SAFE if you need someone to talk to. And with that, I will see you all in two weeks. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!