Independent Abortion Providers Are Human Rights Defenders

Independent abortion clinics collectively provide 58% of abortions in the United States. After 26 weeks of gestation, abortion clinics provide 100% of abortion care in the country. Yet, independent clinics have faced unrelenting attacks to their funding, resources, and physical wellbeing, especially over the past decade. Nikki Madsen and Erin Grant, Co-Executive Directors at the Abortion Care Network (ACN), sit down to talk with us about the critical, community-based work of independent clinics and the importance of International Safe Abortion Day around the world.

The Abortion Care Network is the national organization for independent, community-based abortion clinics, whose programming supports sustainability and professional development for clinics and their staff. Providers are navigating providing care to patients plus those that are arriving from out of state, with low pay, little time, and low support for their mental health and wellbeing. Independent providers, showing up every day to under resourced and threatened clinics, believe in provide the human right of sexual and reproductive health care.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Abortion Care Network
Abortion Care Network on Instagram
Abortion Care Network on Bluesky
Abortion Access Is a Care Infrastructure Matter, Not a Culture War
Keep Our Clinics
INeedAnA
International Safe Abortion Day

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Jennie: Hi rePROs. How's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So, y'all, I am still working through some of the AMA questions that we didn't get to. So, today's question I'm going to answer is somebody asked what my favorite protest songs were. And y'all, this took me a minute to really think about. The first one that came to mind was “99 Luftballons” by Nena. I really loved that song when I was younger before fully understanding the full context of what that song was about, about nuclear war. So that is one that comes to mind. I also immediately thought of two dealing with the troubles in Ireland. So, U2's “Sunday Bloody Sunday,” and “Zombie” by the Cranberries as somebody who has Irish Heritage, those are ones that really stuck with me and stuck out in my mind a lot. I also really had a big connection to “Big Yellow Taxi” by Joni Mitchell, but also because my generation, definitely the Counting Crows version. I think maybe that was the one I ran into first versus the Joni Mitchell version. I can't remember. I hear them both so interchangeably now, but I think I ran into the Counting Crows one first. Another one again with my generation that really stands out is “American Idiot” by Green Day. That is another one that I think about a lot. And then obviously “Formation” by Beyoncé, like really also stands out. I don't know if it's some of these, I'm not sure how much you would say they're protest songs, but they're ones that really stand out in my mind when I think about protest songs. Another one that is not a protest, it's not even really a song, but it was on an album. So, I don't know how many of you will remember this or maybe too young for it, but something that really stands out in my mind is on Salt-N-Pepa's, I think it was their first album. It was the very necessary album, which I think it was first. They had an interlude on it called “I've Got AIDS,” and it's like a short audio drama type thing, and that really made a huge impression on me. I was really young when I heard it for the first time. And so, that is another one that really stands out. Again, it's not even really a song, so I don't know if it quite falls in the protest song category, but like really it made a huge impression on me as I was as I heard it. So, those are the ones that I have been thinking about. It was really an interesting question because it's just not something that I have put a lot of thought into. And so, it was kind of fun to start to think through protest songs or what I consider a protest song, and ones that have stuck with me, and ones that maybe are older that are really important versus like ones that like had like real personal connections to me, and I remember them being out and listening to them on the radio, or had like salient issues to me. And so, it was a really fun question. So, thank you to Heidi for submitting it. It was a great question, and I appreciated the chance to think through it. Yeah, so that's the AMA question for today. I think we're nearing the end of the ones I didn't get to, but it's been nice to have those because I don't always know what to talk to y'all about in my intro because I don't feel like I always have a lot of very exciting things happening that are worth talking about. So, it has been fun to have these like little prompts. Maybe I'll look for some other fun prompts for our intro so you can get to make sure you can know me better and that we can connect. Okay. I think that is probably good for now, and we can turn to this week's episode. I am very excited about this week's episode. We're doing it in honor of International Safe Abortion Day, which is on the 28th, so next week. And so we are talking to the co-directors of the Abortion Care Network, which is a network of independent abortion clinics. So, we have with me today Aaron Grant and Nikki Madsen. And y'all, it is such a wonderful conversation, and it is so wonderful to learn more about independent clinics and the very important work they are doing and ways that you can think about taking action and getting involved for International Safe Abortion Day. And even before that, there was also World Contraception Day, which is on the 26th. So, go out and share why contraception is important to you. Okay, so with that, let's go to my interview with Erin and Nikki.

Jennie: Hi, Nikki and Erin. Thank you so much for being here today.

Nikki: So happy to be here. Hello.

Erin: Hi, thanks for having us.

Jennie: Okay, before we get started, let's do a quick round of introduction so people can kind of get an idea of who's talking when. Let's go alphabetically. Erin, would you like to go first?

Erin: Hi, yes. I'm Erin Grant. I use they and them pronouns, and I am co-Executive Director at Abortion Care Network with Nikki.

Jennie: Nikki?

Nikki: Hi all. I'm Nikki Madsen. I use she/her pronouns. And as Erin said, we're the co-Executive Directors of Abortion Care Network together. And we couldn't be more happy to be here today with you, Jen.

Jennie: I am so excited to have you here. I feel like, you know, a lot of people who are like really in this work obviously know who Abortion Care Network is. But I think there's probably a lot of our audience who maybe has not heard of y'all. Let's take a minute and what is Abortion Care Network?

Nikki: Yeah, we love- this is my favorite thing to talk about. So-

Erin: You do.

Nikki: Yeah, Abortion Care Network is the national organization for independent community-based abortion clinics. We were founded in 2008 by some smart, savvy abortion clinic members that said, we really need a place of our own because we have unique issues. And we want to come together with allies like lawyers, artists, abortion funds, academics, and really chew on some of those difficult issues and navigate them. And we also want to be, like, we love abortion, and we want to talk about it with the world and let them know why we love our work, why it's so important, and really help to reduce abortion stigma. And so, we have the best jobs in the world that we get to lead the organ, this national organization that supports these like compassionate, smart, savvy abortion providers all across the country. And our programming here at ACN really supports their sustainability to keep their doors open, their professional development, and their wellness. And so, yeah, we get to do that for our jobs. It's really great.

Jennie: I think this is one of those things that you know most people are really familiar with Planned Parenthood and don't realize there's such a big network of independent abortion funds and realize what a big part of the Abortion Care Network there is.

Nikki: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important to know that independent clinics provide the vast majority of abortion care in America. They provide 58% of abortions in the United States collectively, but then as abortion progresses in gestation, they provide more and more to the point that they provide 100% of abortion care after, or they are make up 100% of the clinics that provide abortion care after 26 weeks and 100% of the shield providers in America. And so, meaningful abortion care just doesn't happen in the United States without independent abortion clinics.

Erin: Yeah, I think one of the things that I love so much about being a co-Executive Director or being involved in Abortion Care Network is that we are really membership-based and members first, and our members are involved in all different levels of the work that we do, but really being able to be a place for community that's led by their community innovations and navigating challenges. I mean, the last 10 years has really changed the landscape of abortion care in the United States and globally, some of the decisions that have been made. So, it's just an honor. I mean, obviously, Nikki and I love our jobs, and we have an incredible staff that make this happen for this network and this membership. But we're really proud to know that these providers and their allies are really what make abortion possible, accessible, and available in the US right now and in its territories.

Jennie: So next week is an important day on September 28th. It is International Safe Abortion Day. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and why it's important?

Erin: International Safe Abortion Day really began as a movement around abortion decriminalization in South America, Central America, and the Caribbean. And so, this timing of September 28th is really pivotal. September is a huge month, but it's also in the United States, Latine and Hispanic Heritage Month. So, it's a really good timing for us to say thank you to the Global South for continuing to connect the conversation about abortion being a part of a human rights framework. And the United States is really rich in having a history of reproductive justice that's known from Black folks. So Black and brown folks have been pointing us towards this conversation about abortion being destigmatized, decriminalized, and decentralized as a core part of reproductive health. So, we're excited to kind of be with our global partners and our global family of reproductive health experts who are really saying, you know, abortion services should be quality and available to every person everywhere. No one should be criminalized for their reproductive health care choices or forced to continue a pregnancy or been coerced with poor reproductive education, information, or the pressure that comes from having the legislators and not actually the community make decisions about family. So, ACN members understand these conditions, and that's what they've been navigating for a while. And we see this as a part of a global conversation about what it means to be a human rights defender. And ACN's so proud. We're so proud of our members for being human rights defenders, but also proud to stand in this moment of global solidarity. As we've talked about, independent providers provide the majority of abortions in the United States. So, who better to stand up and say this is a global conversation about justice, and we want to be a part of it?

Jennie: Yeah, I think this is one of those things that a lot of people maybe don't think about, right? That abortion providers are human rights defenders or humanitarian workers. Like maybe we could dig a little deeper into that so that people have a better understanding of what we mean by that because it is so true.

Nikki: Independent providers are like showing up every single day at their clinics and they're under-resourced and under, you know, like most people, we like to say like they're the most important healthcare providers that most people don't know exist. They're really defending people's bodily autonomy, like other human rights defenders. They're navigating extremist threats to be able to do their work and ensure people have access to abortion. They're also serving other health care gaps in their communities like gender-affirming care, birthing centers, other maternal health care gaps, and really doing it with the vision and understanding that they believe in human rights, and that reproductive health is core to human rights, and that we will someday be able to have the vision of reproductive justice and reproductive health for everyone, no matter their zip code in the United States, in every community, and everywhere around the world.

Erin: Yeah, I think that it has to sit in the context also of what we've endured over the past decade. And we can stay in the United States, we can go into the United States and its territories, or we can go globally. But over the past decade, we've seen anti-rights organizations and actors increasingly get coordinated and be transnational and embedding themselves in different political fights, institutional, diplomatic spaces that we've never seen before. And these groups really do coordinate, they share resources and they really work to restrict abortion but also have a fine point on what Nikki pointed out, which is bodily autonomy. In the US, right now, we can see what is just like another distraction or another waste of taxpayer dollars with this ill-intentioned kind of motive around the EPA and making abortion pills, you know, this thing that's in the water. And this kind of statement really does come from trying to co-opt the language of human rights defense, environmental justice organizations, really attacking kind of our public understanding and getting really confusing, getting really confusing, using fear and a weak economy, honestly, and to um have implications that are just really beyond safe abortion, right? So, I think when we put together the full puzzle of undermining contraceptive care, undermining health for maternal and pregnant people, STI prevention, treatment, cancer screenings, emergency care, essential services, like, we are just really talking about destabilizing health systems that are already inseparable from being able to strengthen our quality of life. So, it's just really interesting right now to kind of put it in the political moment as well in a larger anti-rights movement that is trying to hit people in all of the justice movements, but it's kind of awkward how obsessed anti-rights is with abortion and how little we've done to stabilize reproductive health in the United States right now.

Nikki: Yeah, and I just want to- kudos to that, Erin.

Jennie: Yeah.

Nikki: Like, come on. There's so many better things to be doing with your time right now, like caring for families, putting food on the table, like making sure people have housing. But what I want to say is like our members are just navigating, like this is what makes them human rights defenders. They're opening up clinics in states. We've had 60 clinics open since Dobbs. Yes, we've had 100 clinics shutter, but the fact that people are saying people need this care, and I'm gonna take a risk right now in this very uncertain time to open clinics, that's what human rights defenders look like. Hey, I'm gonna pass shield laws and I don't care. I'm gonna send pills in the mail into banned states. That's what human rights defenders look like. And I don't care. I'm gonna keep my clinic open even if there is a ban in my state, and I'm gonna continue providing abortion wrap-around services in my community, and I'm gonna continue being accurate source of information because we've been here for 50 years and we're not going anywhere, and our community knows we're a good place and safe place to come. And so, we're gonna keep our doors open even if we can't provide abortion care any longer. That's what being a human rights defender looks like. So, there is no doubt that independent providers are on the front lines of human rights defense in our country right now.

Erin: I don't want to belabor the point, but I do want to give you also the other piece, which is that we at Abortion Care Network just have the track record. And so this is so simple that we have been to the United Nations stating that reproductive health access is under attack in the United States. We have gone to the Inter-American Human Rights Court and said reproductive health care and access, midwifery, birth, fertility, pregnancy loss, and miscarriage are all under attack. And so, that's also what makes them human rights defenders is that they're in the court cases defending human rights.

Jennie: So important. When you're talking about, you know, trying to use the EPA to, like, peel off people. I really see this as like they know abortion rights are popular, right? So, you see all of these cynical ploys to try and peel off like a little bit of support. So like trying to like get maybe some of the people who may be more on the environmental side to like peel off trying to attack gender-affirming care, and so trying to, you know, just sow seeds of discontent and try and peel off some people there, and it's all just so cynical and all just in the face of like the right to bodily autonomy, like grounded in human rights, that they just don't care about.

Erin: Yeah. Abortion providers work-

Nikki: Sigh.

Erin: Yeah, yeah, just sigh. Like, abortion providers work in these hostile environments, and like Nikki said, it's often at personal risk or I like to say at the whim of courage and spurts to be able to push support for access for health care further. And it is really hard to understand how we're getting our conf we're getting confused and misinformed and constantly being distracted. And again, we spend a lot of time talking about abortion, and it is popular, and people are seeking the services. The big scary with Dobbs and Roe was that abortion numbers were going to go down or that people were gonna stop having abortions, and that's just not what happened. So, we have to be distracted by something else because that abortions aren't stopping and they're not slowing down. And sadly, right now, neither is maternal mortality because of lack of access abortion or fertility issues or having miscarriage management become even more deadly. I mean, we're seeing places that really propone right to life not be willing, like Texas, to give us the maternal mortality statistics this year, because we know that Texas is a banned state. And we also know that people are not able to exercise not only their bodily autonomy, but real scientific knowledge about how to care for people. And that's the other exciting part about independent abortion providers is not only are they human rights defenders, they're training the next generation of human rights defenders. They are innovating, they are opening clinics, and they're staying in their communities. And I like to think they're like not on my watch.

Jennie: Exactly. Yes. So, I feel like we've kind of touched on this in parts, but there's so much happening right now. Like, can you talk a little bit about the current landscape for independent abortion clinics? Right? We know they play a big role in care, but there's still so many attacks happening around abortion and the ways people access abortion that I feel like we need to talk a little bit about what that means for the current landscape.

Nikki: Do you want to take this one, Erin? Or do you want no? You want me to take this? I mean, okay.

Erin: I think we both do so good with this. And we talk about it all the time because we're talking about an earthquake, right? We're not on stable footing, and so both Nikki and I are comfortable talking about this, and it's just: what's new today? [laughs] Right?

Nikki: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like one of the things I want to come back to that you said, Jennie, is like abortion is popular, and Erin said it too. And just just reiterating, like, in this podcast, can we all just stop talking about like abortion as a political football and just say like it is popular? We know it's popular every, you know, over and over again it gets at the polls, at our clinics, everybody is supportive of abortion rights. And one of the things that providers are really navigating right now in this moment is lack of resources to do their jobs. And that is because foundations can be scared to give to directly to abortion providers, especially in this administration. And obviously, with what we're seeing in education institutions and DEI. But if you're not like plainly speaking, if you're not supporting an Independent providers right now to do this work, you are not defending our human rights in the United States. And so, one of the things that is most difficult is the demands that are asked of independent providers with the lack of resources to meet those demands. So, they are trying to provide abortion care at a cost that is minimal because we know that most people that need abortions may not have cash on hand to have them, their insurance may not cover them. And even when Medicaid does cover it, it is often at a loss to the providers. So, the providers are navigating, trying to meet patients where they're at, and the influx of patients coming from other states while being completely under resourced to do so. And this is one of the most critical pieces right now to this landscape. Even before Roe, we didn't have enough abortion brick and mortar abortion clinics in this country. We know that I think the statistic was 89% of counties in the United States didn't have an abortion provider pre-Roe. Now we know we have 14 states that don't have an abortion provider and complete abortion bans. So, we are in a situation where people are traveling and have greater obstacles to getting to care. The providers are having to navigate that. That is very costly to providers and they are not being, they are not being paid for that additional staffing. Prior to coming to ACN, I worked at an abortion assistance fund, and I know when people are frustrated and can't get the health care that they need that they often like get upset with the person who they're talking to on the phone, and it's just because someone's there to listen. And abortion providers are there to listen to their patients, and that means they can also be taking on a lot of the harm that's happening to their patients, and they need wellness supports to be able to navigate their own well-being and mental health, navigating all that they're up against. And of course, we've talked about the increase in anti-extremist behavior. And so, you know, in our Keep Our Clinics grants, the grant program that we have here, where if people donate to keeparclinics.org, we redirect that money to grants to our clinics. One of the number one things people ask for is increasing security supports for their clinics. And so, we know that that takes a toll on providers. And we need the people who have these resources to not back down right now. This is a time to stand your ground and to say we're behind abortion care providers. The public is behind abortion care providers, and this is core to our humanity.

Erin: I think another part of our landscape is shifting legality and what it means to have something be quote unquote accessible but unavailable to many. And so, you know, factors like costs, long wait times, travel, bans, restrictions, those are things that are shared between patients and providers. This is not a time to place abortion providers against abortion patients' needs. This is something that is really a way that we can see independent providers uniquely absorbing the backlash of clinic closure, as well as having to innovate or being able to innovate in community to provide new clinic opportunities and openings in states surrounding the banned states. Something I love about independent abortion providers is that we know that they're in the cases that matter and we know that they're taking a courageous stance. And I think also addressing the fear in our shared community of what this ongoing conversation about criminalization has done to us to be able to know and stand together, it makes it really confusing. And that's again the point is to have us all trying to figure out how the landscape shifted today. So, even Nikki and I think we are hesitant to say, oh, the landscape today, because which court case isn't happening? Because this is happening up today, also, right? So, it's coming out in, like, five days. I know that and I know that International Safe Abortion Day is gonna happen and we're gonna celebrate abortion providers, and we're gonna do all these other things that are lovely and remind us of our dignity and hope. But I have no idea what the courts are gonna do in the next 25 minutes that I'm on this call with you. And I will be promptly checking our email as soon as we get off.

Jennie: No, I definitely feel like at this time there are so many episodes that I am starting. Like, we are recording this on Wednesday, September 16th at 2:30 p.m. Things may change between the time I record this and the time you hear it, especially if we're talking about some sort of court case or executive action type thing of like this is what is currently the status, but like I don't know, it could change between now and then, and we'll try to update as we can. But yeah, it's so fast moving. And like the other thing I was thinking about is you're talking about like, you know, the way we talk about it and that abortion is popular. We have a senior fellow, Preston Mitchum, who just wrote a piece for us. Yeah, Preston is amazing, talking about that we need to stop talking about abortion as a culture war issue and talk about it as an infrastructure issue. And yeah, right, this is healthcare infrastructure that we need to be talking about. And it's not whether it is morally accessible, it is not a culture war thing, it is an infrastructure thing to make sure that people are able to access the care they need and supporting it in all the ways that we would infrastructure.

Erin: Yeah, not to toot our own horn, but Preston was a beloved ACN member at URGE a few while back. So, we're always excited to hear, and this is again what the pride of a network, the pride of a membership organization is knowing our members and also being like, yeah, they're innovators and they get it. And that's why we're so firm about human rights, about access and availability, about every zip code, every clinic, being able to serve its community to the fullest extent because it's not, it's not about morals. We know that people understand that everyone deserves the right to direct their health care and to care for their families and build their families in safety. And going back to my favorite, least favorite topic of the antis is: they're obsessed with us because the science is so good. They're obsessed with us because this is such a clear violation of our human rights. They're obsessed with us because this is gonna keep us in the courts, waste a lot of our time and a lot of our money. The conversation is really about-

Nikki: And they're obsessed, yeah.

Erin: The conversation is about how-

Nikki: I was gonna say they're obsessed with us because abortion is popular.

Jennie: And right, easier to get now that you can get hopefully telehealth abortion pills, right? So, you can't harass the person walking into the clinic so they need to try and shut down the pills so they can, you know, make it harder to get that they can get back and try and shame the people in person who are going into having to go to brick and mortars.

Nikki: Yeah, the other thing you guys have both been talking about that I think is so important, something you rose up, Erin, is lack of time. I think it's definitely a strategy, and one of the things that we need as a movement is the time to coordinate internationally, um the resources to coordinate internationally right now, because we are learning, like we have to invest in strategies the same way our opposition does. And independent providers need to be at those tables. So, we need to be able to fund them to have time to, you know, to sit down with their colleagues from the global south, to understand what is working there, and then to share the learnings about what's working here back to our colleagues internationally as well. And then make sure policies are not decided without independent providers in the room, because sometimes things can do more harm than good if the people most impacted by those policies are not a part of creating them. And so, along with resources, time is something that is scarce right now for providers, and we can't be making big decisions without them in the room.

Jennie: I think we already hit on this, but just to drive the point home, like why is it important that people support their independent clinic, their local independent clinic, independent clinics in general? I think whenever something happens, you hear: I will give. One of my reasons why it's so important is because something big happens and a lot of people go and donate to Planned Parenthood National or you know, some other big national group. But as we've said, there’s a lot of independent clinics doing that work, and the money isn't necessarily going to them at that same time or is even not going to like the local affiliate. So, it is really important to think locally as you are contributing. So, that's my little push, but I'm sure you all have a much better reasoned argument as well.

Erin: Well, I like to think that people should donate to their local independent clinic or be involved with their local independent clinic or have the back of their local independent clinic because we all learned through COVID and through several other community-based crises that we need things in our own backyard with our own people to be able to make sense of this chaos. But other than that, I think it's because they're rooted in the community. They're working these long hours to keep clinics from going, to raise funds, to be compassionate as they absorb. And then also because we want to support our future provider and our current provider workforce. We can't just fight to keep the buildings open. Independent clinics are not buildings, they're people. I'm so proud that I came to ACN coming from working in an independent abortion clinic. And when we fight to keep clinics open, we're also fighting to keep cases going and to overturn things that are looking to criminalize pregnancy. They're not just looking to criminalize abortion or individual people to undo all of the harmful bans. I think it was Arizona, in Texas where we were starting to get into slave code, right? But also, to get the finances with the trimmest, kind of the leanest fat, even though I love the fat, to our independent clinics that are running on margins because we know that intentional education opportunities, clear, consistent information from a loved one or from a community-based source and also relying on each other is how we've always done this work. And also, it really helps us to be able to talk about it and to keep pushing against stigma that so many people receive abortion services, so many people need healthy support through miscarriage management, so many people want to be able to have an ultrasound in their community and not be forced to drive to a major metropolitan city to see what's going on with their pregnancy. And so, I think that it's just about really naming that we want to give it to where it's going to be used immediately and the most. And we know that right now in this political climate, that independent clinics are seeing people, the numbers haven't dropped, and the fight hasn't gotten any easier.

Nikki: And I would just add that one of the things I love about independent clinics is how nimble and flexible they are. So, as we've seen since Dobbs, they are able to pivot in ways that like hospitals or big infrastructures have a hard time pivoting quickly and to meet the moment and to meet the needs of their communities, like we've already talked about. I love when people are like, you know, like we're doing today, what is an independent clinic? Hey, you know what? It looks different in Missoula than it looks in Moorhead, Minnesota, than it looks in Atlanta, Georgia. And the services that are provided are very different. It's not a one size fits all. And that is so critical. In some communities, they're a family provider. They're doing COVID shots and they're doing they're you're they're providing diabetes care. In other major cities, they might only be providing abortion care because there are so many patients that need abortion care in those locations that that's all the staffing that they have to provide. And they're meeting the moment they're meeting the needs of their communities. And if you don't know where your local independent provider is or who that person is, that's one of the easiest things you can do is just to truly be like find out who your local clinic is. You can go to our website at AbortionCareNetwork.org and look at our member clinic listing to find that out. Or you can also find that at INeedAnA.com and get involved. Go to their fundraisers, volunteer as a patient escort. You know, they rely on their community as much as you rely on them. And so getting involved with that committee, and then you know what? Go get your annual pap smear with them. You know, get your birth control there. They need they need the revenue from other sources. Many of them do outside of abortion and so get your primary care at those sites when you can and help keep their doors open so they can continue providing abortion in your community. And then if you don't know where to give or you want to give to them all, and you just want to like spread your wealth, you know, keepourclinics.org is where to go, and all of our member clinics submit grant requests, and then disseminate all the money that comes into Keep Our Clinics back to those clinics. And so that way we are helping clinics across the whole United States. So, if you want to help clinics across the United States, we have an easy way to do it at KeepOurClinics.org.

Erin: I think indies also, to your point, Nikki, are offering patients the most procedure type. They're really looking to make sure that we don't have any patients that have to be turned away in this critical time of transit and travel. And so, it's important to say that not only do they provide the majority of care, they're offering medication abortion, they're telehealth providers, they're brick and mortar providers, they're third trimester abortion providers, they're also sometimes birth centers. I mean, there's a lot going on in the reproductive health world, gender-affirming care providers. So, it's really just a joy to know that supporting them is putting care exactly where people need it and trying to keep it there. So, I always like Keep Our Clinics because it's exactly what it does.

Jennie: That's all right. I feel like there have been so many great things that have come up during this conversation that I've really enjoyed. But I think one of the things you said, Erin, is like really gonna stick with me. Cause again, that simple always sticks, right? That clinics are not the buildings, it's the people. And wow, that's a lot. And it's the people in there doing the work. And if we're not keeping up with the people, Nikki, you talked about wellness and the importance of safety. If those people are not in a good place and are not taken care of and invested in the people, then there is not a clinic, even if the building is still there. So yeah, that is the thing I think that is gonna stick with me the most from this conversation. And I feel like we've already hit on a lot of my usual last question, but which is: what can the audience do? But did we miss anything that you would like to add to that? I feel like you already hit so many of the lovely things the audience can do.

Erin: I think I have a couple, which is: join the global community in International Safe Abortion Day. It's September 28th, but we're actually celebrating all month long. I like to always share the ask I have of my friends, which is: anytime you hear of an abortion ban, until somebody tells you that the party's over, just post either a repost from ACN or INeedAnA.com because abortion is definitely available. And confusing our friends and loved ones right now with all of the Supreme Court cases, all of the talk in the chatter is not helpful to abortion providers or to our communities who are experiencing pregnancy, pregnancy loss, or desire abortion. And then, of course, I would not be an ACN co-Executive Director if I did not say give to keep our clinics. And if you're an independent abortion provider, look us up and become a member because you can sit with us. So those are the things I would say.

Nikki: I love that so much. I'm just gonna add, like, refuse to participate in anything that criminalizes abortion providers. Just refuse.

Erin: I love that. Oh my God. That's my co-Executive Director. You know what I mean?

Jennie: The one thing I would add, we talked about International Safe Abortion Day but also make sure to shout out on September 26th is say is World Contraception Day. So right? Like there's Thanks Birth Control later in the year, but this is the global moment to talk about the importance of family planning and why birth control and contraception is so important. And we need the pieces together, right? We need to make sure that you are able to get that full range of contraception that works for you, whatever that form is and whatever the thing is. We need to make sure that that's available, but we also need to make sure that you are able to access the form of abortion that you that you need easily and safely and in your neighborhood, and all of the things that come with access that are hidden in that word, you it all of these things you should be able to get easily. So, make sure on the 26th, participate in World Contraception Day, and on the 28th is Safe Abortion Day.

Erin: And there's all these fun days in between where we can boo-hiss the Hyde Amendment, the Global Gag Rule. We can talk poorly about that this month, cutting off USAID, making all of our partners around the globe unable to do reproductive health rights and justice work or even get access to contraception. So, I love that you're just as informed as us. It feels like we're all headed to the same place. And it makes me wonder like, yeah, what is a podcast like you doing later with Abortion Care Network?

Jennie: Exactly. We will definitely talk. Yeah. One of the things, if you want to talk global on World Contraception Day, is shouting out the government and going, hey, what's going on with the $10 million in contraceptives that you're sitting on and trying to destroy instead of giving to people who need them?

Erin: I mean, the distractions are abound.

Jennie: Oh, y'all, it was so lovely talking to you. Thank you so much for being here. I had a wonderful time talking with you.

Nikki: It was great. Thanks for inviting us. Of course. Anytime we're here, let us know when you need us.

Erin: Yeah, ditto to that, not to make it sound too co-Executive Director, but definitely ditto to that.

Jennie: Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nikki and Erin. I had so much fun talking to them, and I have a feeling y'all will be hearing from them again soon. We just had such a wonderful time talking, then there is so much more that we could talk about. So, I hope you enjoyed it, and I will see everybody next week. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com, or you can find us on social media. We're at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com.